Category: Meditation

Introduction

In this interview, Ilona Ciunaite shares her powerful journey from a life-altering psychedelic experience to the co-creation of Liberation Unleashed, a global movement dedicated to awakening. Known for her gentle yet direct guidance, Ilona opens up about the inner shifts, personal challenges, and creative expressions that shaped her path. From the “I Virus” metaphor to the Deep Looking method, her story invites us into a raw, honest, and profoundly human exploration of no-self, freedom, and what it truly means to come home.

You can learn more about Ilona Ciunaite on her website here.

Interview with Ilona Ciunaite

Thank you for the invitation to be interviewed. And I’m honored. Thank you for that. And I’m going to go through the questions one by one and see which ones I would like to answer for you.

Okay, the catalytic experience. Question one. Yes, I had the transformative experience on magic mushrooms, and I never had them before, and it was the first time. So I didn’t know what to expect. And it really was a magical trip. In that trip, it felt like what reality was was shown to be different. I thought I knew what reality was, and this was extremely interesting and liberating at that moment, and since then I was looking to get back into that state, which felt like home. In that state, there was no mind. The mind didn’t think, then talk, didn’t evaluate and compare. It was just quiet. It was peaceful. And for me, that was an incredible experience because I never knew that it was possible.

So after that experience, I felt elated for like a week, and I started looking and searching how to get back into that without taking any substances, because I knew that magic mushrooms, they show the way. They kind of open the door, and then I have to walk through it myself.

Okay, question 2, the 8-year search. And since having the first trip of magic mushrooms, a new perspective opened up, and I was looking in various places how to find this way home. For me, it was a gradual process. It wasn’t something like I was losing myself into too much. I enjoyed exploring different modalities and different things, and especially sound healing. At that time, there was this thing called Holo Sync, so I bought some CDs. And I was listening to them during at night, you know, going to sleep, and I just put the phones on, and I drift away. So, allowing these sounds to penetrate into my brain, kind of do the work.

And that was the main thing, and just various different things. It wasn’t interrupting my daily life at all. It wasn’t like serious secret. I was just reading some books and doing my own thing just being curious. Everything got way much more intense at the end of the 8-year period, where I found Jed McKenna’s books. And that was another pivotal moment because when I read them, I realized that everything I knew, I believed that wasn’t true. That wasn’t how it is. It was just some programming. So that was a painful period, and a lot of questioning and self-inquiry and cutting through stuff that I believed was true. Which ended up in kind of letting go of believing.

I couldn’t say that I believe anything anymore because I knew that it’s never 100%. And it’s not something that is coming from me. It’s something that I learned from other people. So that was the culmination of this 8-year period. I read 3 books of Jed McKenna in 13 days over Easter, and I remember there was this volcanic eruption in Reykjavik, and all the planes were landed, and it was an interesting time. So I kind of felt like everything is being stopped for a moment. And yeah, that was a painful time. I was still working, I still enjoyed my life as much as I could, and of course, I had periods of despair and darkness, and crying and feeling like a victim, all that, just normal human stuff. There wasn’t anything particularly strong or unbearable. I kind of felt guided or felt like I’m on a mission, some kind of.

So I just continued working, living, and arrived at the point where things shifted.

Question 3. The influence of literature and teachers. Oh, Jed McKenna’s books were significant in my journey, as well as Pamela meeting Pamela Wilson. Other than that, I liked Richard Bach because he had such a sweet element of mystery and magic and kind of mysticism in it. I don’t remember much about anything else, because it was so long ago, and now it doesn’t feel significant. But the main thing was that I felt guided. So the next book would just come into my awareness on email or in a bookstore. I was just picking up random things, and none of that was as powerful a team as Jed McKenna’s books. Really, the moment of recognition.

Yes, there was this moment of recognition, and I remember I was in my bedroom with a cup of coffee in my hand, looking through the window. It was just a normal morning, and this question came into my mind. Is the Helena running the show? And for a moment, my mind went blank, quiet, stunned. And it was seen that now there was no Ilona running the show ever. It’s impossible. On that moment, it wasn’t recognized really as a shift until maybe 3 days later because, well, something was different, and even my mind was trying to grasp and try to understand what happened. It was clear that something happened. Something fell away. Some kind of core belief was no longer there. There was no way to hook back into it, and since that shift, everything started changing, like starting from moving into another town and opening my own business, and just everything started looking differently.

I always say that the first year is the most interesting because there are so many new insights, so many new recognitions and things fall away, and it’s, I could say, insane. At the same time, I was feeling very blissful, happy, joyful, even though things were happening that not always were good or comfortable. There was that immense sense of freedom. Yes, letting everything be in a different way. Yeah, seeing the patterns of contracting and trying to hold on to things and knowing that there’s nothing to hold on. There’s nobody here that can hold on.

So, it was intense on traveling for a while, and for a few months, I felt high on life, and I couldn’t sleep. I couldn’t eat. I was walking around a little bit like in the days. Oh, in love. Yeah. So, that was the slow shift that changed everything.

Post recognition changes. Yes, there were a lot of big changes and small changes, and the most interesting was that my mind became like an amusement park, and I got so interested in, and what’s going on there that the outside life kind of faded into the background rather than being in the foreground, so it could still function. I could still do that. Please meet clients, make orders, and all that kind of stuff that was still working, and in the daytime I was working with people that had no idea about this, and in the evenings, on my spare time, I was writing a blog and talking to people that were interested in this. So it kind of felt like I was leading a double life for a while.

Which the tattoo, tattoo life and awakening life were not connected in any way, and I could not speak about awakening to everyday people, which was a little bit of a struggle, because I kind of wanted to connect. But there was nobody to connect with. So after a while, I kind of realized that it was my, if I wanted to connect to people, I need to help them to wake up. So that was the beginning of the liberation unleashed. I knew that if I wanted to explore that with others, they have to be awake as well. So that’s how the guiding started.

And firstly over email, then over the Forum, and then many more people joined the Forum. And it was just such a wonderful experience of having a community, building a community of guides and people that were looking after the website and doing the Admin work. It was such a joint effort, and well, it worked pretty well because liberation unleashed is still here 13 years later, and it’s running by itself.

So, what concerns relationships? The biggest shift that I noticed was with my mom because my mom was intensely suffering all her life, and I kind of felt that I had to run away from that. So when I was listening to her stories and she was sharing her pain, I could not feel this thing anymore. I could not feel the pain anymore, but I felt love and compassion instead. So there was allowing for her to be herself to share the painful memories. But it wasn’t taking it on board and carrying that and crying about that, which was huge for me.

Okay, next question is the eye virus concept? Yeah, like, right after seeing through this illusion of a separate self, it dawned on me that it’s like a virus, you know. Another word would be a parasite. But I don’t really like to use that word so much. So. Eye virus. This is like infection to the core programming, and well as beings, as natural beings, we are wired to be in harmony with everything, to live balanced and harmonious, fulfilling life. But something happened for a human, maybe for the mind, that most people don’t feel that. Most people don’t live harmonious, balanced, and joyful life. Natural life. Most humans live painful life, suffering and feeling regrets and guilt and shame about the past, and being anxious, fearful, and panicky about the future, and the normal human mind doesn’t spend so much time in the present because there is so much going on in the memory in the movies that takes a whole lot of attention.

So I don’t know what happened, but it seems like the core programming got infected with this virus that we call I me mine. This is what I am. This is the limited contracted being that has to be comparing itself to others. It’s like a victim of life and circumstances, and it’s a really painful place to be. I don’t really talk about eye virus these days, but it’s still in my book, and if somebody wants to read about it. You can just read about it. I still see that as a fit metaphor. But I think with the word virus, which is now very charged on many levels, I kind of stay away from it now.

Liberation unleashed was a joint effort. Before that, there was a group of people on a different forum, which now no longer exists. So a few of us decided to go our own way. So liberation unleashed was born, and that platform is still going. The whole idea is that there are seekers who come to the Forum, and they want to be guided. They are ready to see through the illusion of self, and there are guides who already been through the Forum, who experienced the process, and now they are able to help and to point and to guide the seeker, and once the seeker recognizes, then the guides kind of confirm that they recognize what they recognize, and then, later on, the seeker can become a guide himself and help others. So it’s like a machine that works, that new people are coming in. They’re being guided. If they like to guide, they give their services all for free, all out of compassion and love for human beings.

There are many parts in liberation unleashed, which is maintenance of website and administration work and registering and moving people to groups. And the main thing is the forum, of course, while the conversations are happening, and the system was set up in such a way that it runs by itself. There is no leader. There is no one person in charge. If something comes up, people just discuss among themselves, decide what needs to be done, and just do it.

So, for this, I’m very grateful for everyone who has been ever involved in liberation unleashed, and keep it running to this day, and I don’t exactly know much about what’s going on there now, because I myself moved away from Forum, guiding into Zoom Meetings, live conversations. I find it so much more effective. But I have done this forum, guiding for many years. And it works. If somebody is looking for a guide, they can go and register and get served. Get assistance.

Common obstacles. I love this question. Yes, there are 3 common obstacles. The first is fear, the fear of disappearing, fear of not being able to function, fear of not existing, fear of death, fear of going mad, all kinds of existential fear, because when we are questioning the core belief of there being an I as a separate self, the fear is protecting that belief from being found out that it’s not true.

The second thing is expectations, and everyone has expectations. Expectations are, you know, we read or watch or hear other people talk about this awakening process, or how it was for them. So the mind paints a picture of how it should be for me, and these expectations are about how I will perceive life, how I will be seen by others, how I will become maybe wise, and have superpowers, or there is some expectation for some grand experience, because this, that, or the other hand, so there are a lot of expectations, and these things get in the way of seeing clearly, because the mind is holding an image against reality and constantly comparing it. And if the reality is not matching the image, it says, this is not it. This is not it. This is not it. There must be something else. I should be feeling something else. This awakening hasn’t happened yet because they had a different experience. So it’s crucial to look through this chapter of the mind that says that it knows how it should be, because it doesn’t know. The recognition is beyond the mind, meaning that when the stillness is recognized, there are no thoughts, there are no descriptions, there are no words arising, there’s nothing there to describe.

So whatever the mind is imagining is not it?

Yes, and the third key player in this obstacle game is resistance, resistance is protection. Protection of the belief system that is currently in place because the belief system has been built year after year after year, putting belief after belief into place, and everything has to be matched. And if something comes in that is not matched, that means a discomfort or cognitive dissonance. So the system has to rearrange, to include that belief, to make sense with a whole other system.

And if the belief in the core, belief in separate self is gone, then the whole system has to rearrange. And that’s why there is so much resistance, because the system is protecting itself from this huge work of collapsing and shedding and changing the whole structure of what we call a person. And yeah, the resistance is one of the most interesting phenomena to look at and work with, because what we call an obstacle and a blockage or something that is in the way is really showing the way forward, showing the way in. And if you treat that as the next invitation to examine something, whatever is coming up. That’s how you move forward, because whatever you resist is holding on so much energy around that it’s so good to release that because that energy can come back into circulation and be flexible and moving and doing its job. But the resistance is holding it like hostage protecting it. So it’s fascinating to work with the resistance.

And so these are the 3 main things that are in the way of seeing clearly. So the resistance is saying. No, I’m not going to go and look there. No, it will not work. Yeah, it can be seen as a doubt also, or this as a fear.

So what’s required is honesty, courage, and readiness. A willingness to look for yourself and readiness. So courage is the other side of fear. Honesty and openness is the other side of expectations. Willingness and readiness is the other side of resistance. So once these 3 resolve, you know, the path is clear. Something can help misconceptions about the process.

Yeah, as I talked before, the mind has an image of how this should be and how it should look, and what I will be like. So the common myths are that it has to be a huge, energetic release or huge event, or something like fireworks. But often it comes just so that as a tiny little poof! And nothing happens. So the misconception is that if I don’t have this huge event, that means I don’t see it.

This is one. The main thing. Another thing is that people expect that once I see it, my life is going to be peachy, rosy. Everything’s wonderful. It’s actually a beginning of the deconstruction process which can be very intense. I’m very full on. It can lead to many disorientations and even dark nights of the soul. Or like perch, or like extensive bliss that feels too much, or whatever way. It’s very unique. So we cannot say that it will be like this or like that, it’s more like your experience is the one that matters now.

So dig in and see what’s true for you. Misconception is that somebody else knows how it should be for me. Nobody knows that. Yeah. And after after the shift, the initial shift, there is a long cleanup operation. I may call it a cosmic washing machine, because all your beliefs, everything that is not true starts falling away, and it feels like you are being cleaned or cleared, or clarified or purified. And every day is the process. And the misconception is that, you know, once I see it through, I don’t need to do that. I don’t need to go through painful emotions or memories, or look into my stories. That’s not true, because everything that has been rejected, denied, resisted, repressed, is going to come up and needs your attention.

Well, the good thing is a lot of things fall away by just being in silence, because silence is another purification going on. And it kind of sucks out all this stuff that is no longer needed in a way that you are not even aware of it. But stuff that is sticky, persistent, and showing up in your situations over and over again need some conscious investigation and inquiry. So it’s a good idea to have a guide during this time because a lot of people went through it already, and you don’t need to be alone, and you can have help. Whether it’s physical, mental, emotional, spiritual aspects of it all are included, and they all need some clearing.

Like, let’s say, if you’ve never been to a hygienist and to clean your teeth professionally. You have been brushing your teeth every day, anyway, but once you get a professional clean, oh, it feels so sparkly and so good, and you want to maintain that it’s not like once you have it done once, then that’s it. You don’t never need to pick up a toothbrush again. But we do have to maintain and keep cleaning our teeth daily. So the misconception is that I don’t need to keep looking anymore. Everything is just effortless, peaceful, happy, blissful all the time. And this expectation is very much in the way of seeing clearly and jumping into the path, the right path, because now, since there is a space between what I am and what I am not. What I am not is allowed to be as it is, and move in its own way in its own time, and just being a witness to that helps really helps because there’s less and less holding on to the old stuff after the recognition.

Yes, it’s the recognition is just the beginning. Like, you have been in this room. You open the door, and now you’re in a field. So recognition is now stepping through the door into the field. And what’s in the field? Everything’s new. You have to explore and see what’s going on in that field. So it’s just the beginning, and there are lots of other insights and seeings that are waiting to happen.

So, seeing

no self is a shattering of the core belief. But now, when the system has to rearrange itself into the new way of understanding. Many things have to be re-examined and seen differently. So it’s just the beginning. There’s a lot more coming up, and it’s a wild ride. So whatever comes in is the right thing. So there are really 2 things going on here. The recognition and clearing. Clearing on many levels, on all the levels and clearing, is becoming aware of the old patterns of the old behaviors, old thoughts, old emotions, and that awareness itself is like a light that shines onto that pattern. So the pattern can self-release and correct itself.

So this is a long job, and maybe I continue still until we die. I don’t know. Well, in the beginning, it may be very intense. Or maybe in the beginning, it’s blissful and happy, but at some point it comes back. The all the junk that still needs to be taken care of comes back to be taken care of.

So now liberation is not a recognition. Liberation is having more and more space and feeling free, feeling free and comfortable in your own body, in your own mind, in your own emotions, in your own story, in your own environment, in your relationships, in your views on others and the world and the wealth and everything. It’s a big job.

I’m going to skip questions about art and spirituality and the Oily Witch because nobody ever called me Oily Witch except for that article. Now, I never heard that.

Balancing different roles. Well, everyday life is just a flow of events and activities. And it’s just whatever is arising in the moment. So there is nothing to balance. Really, it’s just being present to what is here right now, like, for example, now, I’m recording this interview, and after I finish, I don’t know what will happen. Maybe I’m going to go and feed the cat, or I need to go outside and do something, or I don’t know. So it’s kind of being fresh and just being present to what is arising. I don’t know what will happen. and there is no need to balance, because the balancing different roles is kind of mind’s imagination of how I should be, how what I should do. There is no more of that. It’s just meeting this moment as it is, so, and it’s already full balance and complete in itself.

Next question, evolution of liberation unleashed. Yes, there were a few of us in the beginning of the liberation unleashed, and Elena Nizinski was one of them, and we published the 1st book together, and it was made of the 1st conversations that we ever had with seekers who saw what we were pointing to. Yeah, we were friends for a few years, and later we kind of went separate ways. And that’s that liberation unleashed evolved. It’s approach. Well, it kind of. We try to keep it. We try to keep the approach the same as it was because it works. The approach is, the guide is only asking questions. The guide is not a teacher. It’s not saying how it is. It’s not describing their experience, but asking questions that the seeker has to look into themselves, find the solution to their question, find the answer, and come back. And then they get a new question based on what they said. So this approach is still on and still working.

The evolution is that now, with the availability of Zoom and interviews, and having live conversations, it’s so much easier to sit with somebody for an hour or an hour and a half and point them life and then see their reactions and responses to life. It’s so much richer because it’s not just words being exchanged. It’s also the energy and something else going on there. So that’s the evolution. It’s still there are a lot of guides who work only on typing, just writing in the Forum. And it’s wonderful. And it works. But I think that’s the first stage and the second stage, you know, when somebody becomes good at it, they can try and do the video calls.

As for the future directions, I hope that it will stay the same. It will continue to be the best service available for free for those seekers who are willing and ready to question the core belief, and I hope that there will be more guides coming in. And they will continue going until the service is still needed. That’s the future.

Yes, there were a lot of challenges within the community, and with different people coming in with different ideas. And we evolved as a community, and at the moment everything seems well and good, and people are still coming and joining and guiding. So that’s the most important thing. There were challenges for me as well that this is going to sound funny. When I wanted to go to, when I was invited to go to a retreat which was involving psychedelics, a lot of members were really scared and protested and didn’t like that idea that I would go there. I don’t know why, maybe fear. Maybe not ready. Maybe it seemed like a not good idea for them, but I couldn’t be stopped at that point. Few members left because they couldn’t handle the idea that I wanted to smoke the toad medicine, or how they would be seen if I do that. But that was many years ago, and this is one of the big challenges. I guess it doesn’t matter now, really.

And at the moment I’m not working on a forum with the Liberation unleashed day. Have my own. my own shop. Let’s say that I work with people individually and with groups, and offering the service of guiding and supporting. And I meet people online, not in person. At the moment, I meet people online on zoom every day. And the measure of success for me is when they finally say, yes, I see it wonderful. That’s one big step. And another thing is, when I open the call and they say, Yeah, I feel great. I feel my week was awesome. I enjoyed it because before they would be distressed crying, trying to figure things out, and they didn’t have tools on how to meet.

What is arising. So for me with the success is double, is when they feel grateful for seeing through the self illusion, and when they know how to deal with everyday challenges, with emotions, with the old stories, and we can work with them together until they kind of get it, and they can do it by themselves for themselves. It’s kind of like, you know. Teaching people how to approach their own invitations. The challenges that life is bringing and following that path by themselves for me that success.

Well done! Oh, my own, my own process! Well, for many years, my own process was meeting people, and being of service and learning how to meet them where they are. I developed this deep looking method, and for me, that was my own process as well as helping others at the same time, because when people were coming to me with a particular question, it would resonate, and it kind of work with them and for myself and for them and for everyone else, kind of. So my practice is still going. As I say, I work with people every day, and I learned to hold the space in such a way that whatever is coming up to meet me, self-resolves in some way. Maybe in one session, maybe in 10, maybe in a hundred. But something happens, and my practice, what I do, I like to read some books in the morning, some wise words, or something that resonates. I like to do some energy healing time to time. I also have a lot of cats. So serving them is also a big big teaching and learning and being of service to these innocent, wonderful animals.

That is kind of my practice, too. I like listening to sound healing tracks. I wouldn’t call it music, maybe some music. But I don’t listen to music anymore. Just sound healing or time to time. I have a meditation, or even EFT tapping session for myself. And what else? A big part of my journey was light. I have this device called Agna Light, and it’s an incredible creation by this guy called Guy Harriman, and he created this device that pulses light different frequencies, and you kind of meditate with that, or lay down under it. And it gets into a deep, wonderful state. So that was a big part of my clearing, cleaning, purifying stage.

And yeah, my journey is still ongoing every day. It’s a fresh day, and something is coming up, some new people coming in. Or something I resonate with, and I see new things and new ways to express new ways to guide. It’s very interesting. So that’s it.

And the last question, the broader vision. I see that there are a lot of people on this path and awakening path. And I hope that people now wake up get settled in. Enabling, enabling, enabling other people to wake up. Showing the way just by being themselves, just by being openness. Compassion, kindness, love. That it’s affecting everyone else at the same time. So my vision is that time is needed for this process to complete itself. But it started. And it’s going strong. And there are so many people giving all kinds of services, all kinds of support, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. And more than we don’t even know yet.

So whatever is drawing you in, whatever is calling, that’s the way to go, and that’s just listening to your own inner wisdom and your own inner guidance. So by clarifying, by awakening, by becoming real. You and I and everyone else can support the whole of humanity and get everyone out into this lighter, happier, peaceful, joyful, balanced way of being, as we’re supposed to be.

Cultural impact. I don’t know. But no. I guess the more people come back to the natural way of being, into the balanced harmony is being, the better it is for everyone. It doesn’t matter on which culture, which country, or which political or religious system one belongs. Yeah, it’s affecting deeper aspects of us, and we can see how we can help and be of service to others.

And the message for the seeker. The message for the seeker is, if you are on this path, you already are awakening, and you already have everything you need, and it is your experience. So if you need a guide, get a guide. If you need to go into your meditation and stay with yourself for a while, do that. It doesn’t matter. It’s your path, you know what works for you. And you know, and just know that everything is unfolding as it should for you, uniquely, personally, exactly right. So you can trust the process and let it do whatever it needs to do. Kind of surrender to surrender to the truth. But to do that you need to be ready. And if you’re not ready, that’s okay. It’s good to know that it’s good to know and get ready. But once the call. Once the call is made, once you know that you cannot live without knowing who you are. What’s the truth? If you want awakening, you cannot live without awakening.

Yeah, take your time. Be kind to yourself, and it’s already on the way. It’s already calling you.

On the ultimate question. If you could distill the essence of your guidance, work in a single question that might catalyze recognition in others. Right?

It’s the eye that is running. The show is the eye in charge of what is happening.

Is there? I, as a separate entity from life, making life happen.

Thank you very much. I hope I answered everything for you. And yeah, I’m very excited about this, and thank you again for reminding me. I’m looking forward to reading the article.

Bye, for now.